[Spellyans] a vry

Chris Parkinson brynbow at btinternet.com
Wed Nov 6 19:54:28 GMT 2013

I think we have already covered this ground in a discussion in May. Late
Cornish as I understand it was  the spoken Cornish which Lhuyd and many
contemporaries attempted to collect and record before the language was lost.
It of course differs in its orthography (ies?) from Middle and Tudor Cornish
and that has continued to be a problem for some time.  In 'Desky Kernowek',
as I have pointed out before, when you standardised the Late spellings of
many of the useful samples of Cornish that you gave, you in fact deleted
numerous characteristics of the spoken language which had been originally
collected. Is this because you don't recognise the distinction, or the
importance of the distinction? Or that you think the spoken language is
somehow substandard? Richard Gendall gave up on UC because he didn't see it
producing very many fluent speakers after long years of teaching. So he
turned to Late Cornish thinking that would be a better starting point, but
got bogged down in problems of orthography. RLC users are at last getting
this sorted. When we discuss our problems of spelling, grammar, idioms,
usage etc. we would value your support. And we know that Middle, Tudor and
Late Cornish are all one language. 



From: Spellyans [mailto:spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net] On Behalf Of
Nicholas Williams
Sent: 06 November 2013 14:26
To: Standard Cornish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Spellyans] a vry


Of course. My only point was that the phrase a vry should be replaced by a

This is similar to the view that in kever should not be used but in y gever
is all right.


On a different point:

Does anyone consider hethow or hedhow 'today' to be a distinctively LC form?

I ask, because hezow (hethow) is in PA:


hezow pan ezys yn mes

cleves vyth nyth kemerse PA 57d.


So much of what we consider Late Cornish is found in the earlier language.


We think dhe why 'to you' is Late but ze wy, zewy occurs five times in PA.


We think of danen 'to send' as Late, but the scribe of PA uses it:

Thy gour hy a zanonas PA 123a.


Some people believe lyver and tyller are Middle Cornish, whereas lever and
tellar are Late.

Levar 'book' occurs in PA and teller, tellar are found in PA, the Ordinalia,
BM and TH.


We think of kenyver tra 'everything' as Late Cornish but note:

a vernans crist pan welse

kynyuer tra marthusy PA 208b


The use of disjunctive pronouns as the object of a verb is a Late feature,

Ha Deu goras gi en ebron neve JBoson


Or is it?


arluth prag y hysta vy PA 201c


ha mar tene leverall na russyn peha,

ny a ra eff gowak TH 8




arluth, te a wore henna, fatell caraff ve ge TH 43.



The difference between Middle and Late Cornish is very largely a question of








On 6 Nov 2013, at 08:46, Ray Chubb wrote:

Nevertheless we still need 'vry' with forms of 'gul' and 'ry' to impart the
meaning 'make note of', 'pay attention to' or 'consider something to be
important'. e.g. 'ny wraf vry anodho' - I don't consider it of importance.
Y'n casys ma my a wra vry an ger 'vry'.




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