[Spellyans] Excel SWF-KK-Traditional Corpus-WIP

A. J. Trim ajtrim at msn.com
Thu Feb 11 01:10:28 GMT 2016


This is an interesting list.
It would be better if it were to include the attested Traditional 
Cornish forms, with frequencies. I expect that you have that planned ....
It would be better still if it were to include the Traditional Graph 
forms and their pronunciations for the plurals!

Words like karate, kayak, Korea, Koran do not become more traditional by 
spelling them with c, instead of k, so I would leave them as k.

Double k occurs only in bykken, lakka, tykki. I would spell these with 
ck, instead of kk, to match all the others.

The SWF rule seems to be that we have to use kt but I prefer ct, instead 
of kt, in words like activita, whecter, octet.

For some reason, k did not get transcribed to c in the following:
keskal to keskarydhes
keskloppa to keskussulyans
kesskol to kesskrifores

The word distruksyon has been converted to distruxyon.
I think that this is wrong as it is not really an instance of ks but 
rather an instance of ksh (spelt here ksy.)  I think that it should be 
spelt distrukcyon if that is allowed, else keep as distruksyon.
As far as I can see, all the other instances of ks in your list should 
be x, with the exception of bankskwattyans / bankskwattyes, which I 
think you have correct (banksqwattyans / banksqwattyes).
However, the plural (bankswattyansow) should have either a second k or a 
q too.  I believe that the on-line dictionary has this wrong.

For some reason, ks did not get transcribed to x in the following:

It has been assumed that the Traditional Graph equivalent of kw is qw. 
However, the Traditional Cornish in your Awesome list shows that the 
overwhelming majority of Traditional words had qu, not kw and not qw. 
Any attempt to make Cornish spelling more traditional should reconsider 
qu. The MAGA on-line Cornish Dictionary has a note on Traditional Graphs:

Traditional graphs / Grafys hengovek

By default, this dictionary writes <k> for /k/, <hw> for /ʍ/ or /hw/, 
and <-i> for word-final /i/. The Standard Written Form also makes 
provision for the use of 'traditional graphs' such as word-final <y>, 
which are held to be equally correct, for personal use. If you use 
‘traditional graphs’ when writing the SWF, please refer to the following 
table to help you in using the dictionary:

‘Traditional’ to ‘Main’ form conversion table

c before a, o, u, l, r→ k

qw (or: qu)→ kw

x → ks

wh → hw

unstressed final -y → -i

There are two points to note here.
Firstly "for personal use". I assume that this means that Traditional 
Graphs are not held to be equally correct for official use.
Secondly, "or: qu". I assume that kw can be spelt qu.

The word frikhwyth has been converted to friqwhyth.
I think that this is wrong as it is not really an instance of kw but 
rather an instance of kwh (spelt here khw.)  I think that it should be 
spelt frikwheth.

The word dermatologydhes appears to have the dh transposed to hd in the 
plural (dermatologyhdesow). I believe that the on-line dictionary has 
this wrong.

The word bughwas has been converted to bugwhas. However, this is from 
bugh gwas, so wh is unlikely. If the Late Cornish pronunciation is 
correct, you may need an additional Late variant buhwhas.

For some reason, hw did not get transcribed to wh in the following:

Unstressed word-final -i to -y conversion is not happening whenever the 
word is marked L, M, [1], [2]. There are quite a few of these.
For example:

but also

tikki Duw

The word nantei has been converted to nantey. I believe that this is 
wrong, and that nantei is correct.

Well, this has turned out to be rather a long post. I hope it helps.


Andrew J. Trim

On 03/02/16 15:02, Harry 'Double-H' Hawkey wrote:
> How about this...(open document spreadsheet format, from the online 
> SWF dictionary, hundreds of errors corrected [might be some left, 
> might be a few new ones], traditional forms column, pronunciation M + 
> L)...
> I think I fixed all the problems that Andrew pointed out converting 
> main-->traditional.  Except, I'm not sure how to handle cases of [ks] 
> > [x] where the stress falls between the 'k' and the 's' e.g. boksusi  
> (bɔk'sʏzi according to SWF pronunciation).  At the moment they are 
> left as 'ks'.  Are these supposed to be changed to 'x' as well?
> If you can't open the .ods, I also uploaded a tab-delimited utf-8 text 
> document, which should be importable by any spreadsheet program, since 
> some people (Apple users?) had trouble opening the last one.
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> Spellyans mailing list
> Spellyans at kernowek.net
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