[Spellyans] "Tribe"

[Nicky Rowe]

Nyns yw an dra mar sempel, dell grysav. Drefen yn Origo Mundi y kevyn "Dew
dhen a gevydh ena. Gorr i yn-mes desempis", hag "Ena tus mara cavav, yn-mes
y fedhons gorrys." Adam hag Eva yw an "dew dhen" ma!

Nicky

On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 11:44, Nicholas Williams <njawilliams at gmail.com>
wrote:

> In Kernowek yma an ger *tus* yn fenowgh ow mênya ‘men, persons gorow
> leundevys’ kyns ès ‘people.’ Yma hedna owth apperya dhyworth an tyleryow-ma:
>
> *tus** benenes ha fleghys omma ny vethons gesys* OM 1588-89
> *tus** benenes ha fleghys ymons omma dyuythys* OM 1611-12
> *dun alemma the'n mor ruyth **tus** benenes ha flehys* OM 1622-23
> *ha y fe danvenys omma the Englond an moyha notabill ha auncyent **tus**
> dyskys rag progath, han rena a rug convertya ha trelya lyas myll a vyllyow
> then feith* TH 51
> *Ha ma leiaz bennen*/*Pokare an guenen*/*Eye vedn gwerraz dege **teez*/*Dendle
> peath a’n beaze* JJenkins.
>
> An ger ûsys rag ‘people, moy ès udn person’ yw *pobel*:
>
> *ef yv arluth a allos hag a prynnas gans y wos **pobel** a'n beys* RD
> 1183-85
> *An **Poble** erra zetha en Tolgo a wellaz Gullow broaze *Rowe
> *Ha me rig clowaz an **poble** compla* JJenkins
> *nag u an **Pobel** Coth tho bose skoothez war noniel NBoson*
> *Cornoack ewe all neceaves gen **poble** younk* Bodinar.
>
> ‘Person' (den pò benyn) yw *person*:
>
> *may ruga cuthy ha dystrya gans lew Noye oll an bys, mas naye *[h.e.
> *Noye*] *y honyn, y wreg, y iii mab haga iii gwreg, viii person ens in
> holl myns a ve sawys* TH 7.
>
> Nicholas
>
> On 13 Feb 2020, at 10:29, <jeneferlowe at gmail.com> <jeneferlowe at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Corlan is still used in Welsh for sheepfold and the geiriadau prifysgol
> has a reference from 1707 which quotes it as from Kyr – a word for sheep,
> not now used. Presumably in that case it might be related to the Gaelic
> caora for sheep?? I’ve never heard corddlan for a cemetery in Welsh, but
> corlan is used figuratively for a congregation in church with the same
> analogy of a shepherd and his flock as in English.
>
> Jenefer
>
> *From:* Spellyans <spellyans-bounces at kernowek.net> *On Behalf Of *Raymond
> Chubb
> *Sent:* 13 February 2020 08:42
> *To:* Standard Cornish discussion list <spellyans at kernowek.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Spellyans] "Tribe"
>
> This is interesting Craig.
>
> Re *corlan*, Nance thought that this was a sheepfold and related to an
> older word for a sheep. I note that in the English - Cornish dictionary
> Nicholas has used it to mean an enclosure e.g. pen or pound.
>
> Why in English do we pronounce corps as cor? Any connection?
>
>
> On 12Hwe2020, at 20:40, Craig Weatherhill <craig at agantavas.org> wrote:
>
> In ‘Desky Kernowek’, Nicholas cites two words to translate “tribe”:
> Nance’s <*lyth*> (< OC <*leid*>), and <*tryb*> (Tregear’s <*trib*>), but
> there is a third noun that we could readily use in revived Cornish.
>
> This word is <*cordh*> (commonly reducing to <*cor’*>), pl. <*corthow*>,
> gender unclear.
>
> It occurs in two Cornish place-names: Trigg (pagus Tricurius C7;
> Trigorscire c.881), the Hundred or Keverang of North Cornwall; and
> Langorthou 1310, the site of Fowey church.  It also occurs in Brittany as
> Trégor, evidently and like Kernev and Domnonèe,  a cross-channel
> transference.
>
> <*cordh, cor’*> also forms part of OC <*coscor*>, “family, retinue”
> (place-name: Bownds an Coscar, Towednack 1672); and MC <*corlan*>,
> “cemetery” (Welsh: <*corddlan*>).  Translating as “clan, tribe, family,
> army”, <*cordh*> has cognates in Welsh <*cordd*>, Old Breton <*cor*> and
> early Irish <*cuire*>, “host, troop”.
>
> In the name Trigg, this indicates a Hundred or Keverang that could muster
> three war-hosts and interestingly enough, this component of Cornwall’s
> original six Hundreds was later divided into three (Trigg, Lesnewth and
> Stratton).  Indeed <*keverang*> itself has cognates in Welsh (<*cyfrang*>,
> “meeting, encounter, battle”) and Middle Breton (<*cuuranc*> “military
> assembly”).  In Roman Gaul, we also find the Tricorii and the Petrucorii.
>
> It’s also interesting that in these names <*try, tri*> does not cause 3rd
> state mutation, but 2nd state.  Furthermore, where it occurs in the hill
> name Dry Carn (Tricarn 1300), “three (Bronze Age) cairns”, it causes no
> mutation at all in 6 surviving attestations spanning as many centuries.
>
> I see no reason why <*cordh, cor’*>, pl. <*cordhow*> “tribe, clan,
> war-host” cannot be accepted into revived Cornish.
>
> Craig
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>
> Ray
>
> Portreth
> Kernow
>
>
>
>
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